Speaking Up and Sitting at the Table with Paula Mathias

Paula Mathias is a writer of both fiction and nonfiction books aimed at inspiring women to speak out, step up, and take charge. She discovered her passion for storytelling at sixteen after a happy accident landed her in the wrong English class. A California native, she finds inspiration in family adventures, creative cocktails, and dancing in her kitchen to ABBA songs. With over a decade in the tech industry, Paula has firsthand experience navigating male-dominated spaces. A recognized expert in workforce development and diversity in STEM, her insights have been featured in Forbes, TalentCulture, and Authority Magazine, and she shares industry trends through her weekly LinkedIn newsletter.

Website: paulamathias.com

IG: @paulamathiasauthor

LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulamathiasfryer/

Chapters

• 3:00 Advocating for yourself at work
• 4:30 Paula's Wake-Up Call
• 6:30 Recruiting Women in Tech
• 8:30 The Happy Accident That Sparked a Writing Career
• 10:30 Morning Pages and the Writing Process
• 11:30 A Rom-Com with a Purpose
• 15:30 Writing Her First Novel (Secretly)
• 17:30 How to Publish a Book (and Why She Self-Published)
• 21:30 Practicing what you preach
• 24:30 Confidence Starts with Asking Questions
• 27:30 Literally Take Your Seat at the Table
• 28:30 Advice to Her Younger Self
• 33:30 The 4 Career-Building Traits
• 36:30 Tips for Navigating Workplace Microaggressions
• 39:30 Diversity in Tech: What Works
• 43:30 Systemic Change Starts with Visibility
• 55:30 Stereotypes and STEM
• 57:30 Be Unstoppable!

Transcript

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Miriam Burlakovsky: today on the show. I have Paula Mathias. She's a writer of both fiction and nonfiction. Books


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Miriam Burlakovsky: aimed at inspiring women to speak out. Step up and take charge woohoo!


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Miriam Burlakovsky: She discovered her passion for storytelling. At 16, after a happy accident, landed her in the wrong English class.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: A California native, she finds inspiration in family adventures.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: creative cocktails, and dancing in her kitchen to Abba songs.


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Paula Fryer: That's right.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So for a decade in the tech industry Paula has firsthand experience. Navigating male dominated spaces.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: a recognized expert in workforce development and diversity in stem. Her insights have been featured in Forbes talent, culture, and Authority magazine.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: and she shares industry, trends through her weekly Linkedin Newsletter welcome to the show. Paula.


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Paula Fryer: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So where would you like to start? I know that you have a book that is launching right now.


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Paula Fryer: They do?


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Miriam Burlakovsky: You like to start? There.


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Paula Fryer: Sure. So I have a book that just launched last week, and it's called, Speak Up. And it's really all about women


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Paula Fryer: building confidence, taking charge of their careers.


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Paula Fryer: Funny kind of funny story is that it was at 1st called, speak up and get ahead! And as I was talking to so many women while I was researching it.


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Paula Fryer: women were like, I I don't know if I really want to get ahead anymore. And I thought that was so interesting. It's been this shift of


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Paula Fryer: what I'm more interested is taking charge of my career and making it look like what I want it to look like. So my book really shifted on that aspect of just taking control and taking charge of your career for whatever that means, like whatever that means to you. So whether it's being an entrepreneur or climbing the corporate ladder, or you want to have a more flexible, you know, work time so that you can pick your kids up from school, whatever it is.


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Paula Fryer: speaking up and being heard and advocating for yourself and taking up space is still so important, because I always say kind of my catchphrase is, if you don't speak up for yourself, if you don't advocate for yourself, who will.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Amen.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, agreed.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah.


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Paula Fryer: I would. I always tell people, too, because they're like, well, you know, my boss is my boss, will, you know, help me? And it's like, actually your boss, probably a nice person, but


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Paula Fryer: 1st and foremost looking out for themselves and getting their own promotion and working, you know, getting getting ahead in their own way. That is their 1st thought. Typically, I mean, there are some other bosses out there, of course, but typically, that's that's the 1st inclination is, you know.


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Paula Fryer: doing their own thing, the boss. Of course they're advocating for you somewhat, but they're number one for themselves, too. So you have to advocate for yourself.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Definitely. So what does that look like for


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Miriam Burlakovsky: what did that look like for you?


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Miriam Burlakovsky: And what might that look like for women listening.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah. So I mean, I had a big learning curve with it where I thought that more of my role was being instead of being assertive. It was more being, you know, appreciative and just kind of going with the flow. And and


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Paula Fryer: in my mind doing my job was doing my job, you know, was like the epitome of what I was supposed to be doing, and what I didn't really realize all along is that I kind of wasn't playing the the game. I I kind of was just going along with things and not speaking up for myself, not advocating for myself, and kind of gotten some roles. That


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Paula Fryer: at the end of the day I didn't really want. So in my book I talk about being the office mom, that's an example. So what happened to me and what happens to a lot of people is, oh, you know, will Paula do the the birthday parties for people. You're so good at that.


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Paula Fryer: you know. And for me, I was like, Well, yeah, I do that for my kids, or I do that at home. So it's easy for me to to translate that when I get to work. But what happened to me is that it snowballed, and all of a sudden I was office, mom. And I'm like, this is not what I wanted in my career. What am I doing? And so really backing up and advocating, like, figure out what I do want. And in my book I also talk about like personal branding and


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Paula Fryer: 5 year plans for your goals, and then breaking them into smaller goals, but really knowing what you want to helps, so that when you, when you do advocate for yourself, when you do speak up, when you do set boundaries.


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Paula Fryer: It's all for common good. It's all for


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Paula Fryer: going where you want to go and taking control of really where you want to be


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Paula Fryer: so. There's a purpose to it.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: And what were? Where were you working at that time?


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Paula Fryer: I was working for a tech company. I did hr, and recruiting So


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Paula Fryer: it's kind of what really got me into this whole thing. It was a snowball effect, because I recruited I was a really good recruiter, but I looked around, and everybody kind of looked the same. And I thought, How how can I make a more diverse workforce?


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Paula Fryer: And I really dug deep into women in stem, and women in diverse male dominated industries and what that looked like, and I I got to be somewhat of an expert on recruiting. But then, when I what I found out after I recruited was where the tricky part is is retention.


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Paula Fryer: because if you are in a field where


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Paula Fryer: you're not always supported or the company culture isn't


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Paula Fryer: based around you. It's tough. It's really really tough. And I've also worked in like the manufacturing field recruiting for that and training for that. And it's really tough to keep women in those male dominated fields. So part of what I recognize was that you really have to


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Paula Fryer: be fearless, and it's really easy to


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Paula Fryer: to be afraid to speak up.


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Paula Fryer: I was just talking to somebody about that today, how they were in a meeting, and it was it was about Crypto. They were in a meeting full of men, talking about Crypto.


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Paula Fryer: and she, even though she knew what she was talking about. She still felt so insecure.


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Paula Fryer: You know she really felt like, what am I doing here?


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Paula Fryer: She had all these self doubts all of a sudden, and kind of questioned herself, even though she she really knew the subject, and she was there. She was in the room for a reason. She was still having those self doubts, and I think we do that so many times to ourselves. So a lot of speaking up has to do with overcoming fears, building your confidence and going for it. I mean, sometimes you just have to force yourself to do something.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah,


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So let's go back to your English class. You got you got


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Miriam Burlakovsky: pulled into the wrong English class in 16 at 16, but actually ended up being the right one. It sounds like.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, I'll never forget it. I was. I was probably younger than 16, actually, because I think I was as my freshman year, and you know they give you like a piece of paper with all your classes on it. And I was trying to figure out where to go, so actually went into the English class, and sat down, took a desk and everything.


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Paula Fryer: And the teacher, Mr. Morse, I'll never forget him. He started out talking. He didn't do role yet, and he started out talking about journaling, and how important that is, and how important writing is, and and just writing every day that was his thing is just write every day, write your feelings, you can write what you've done, just write every day. And so we talked about this, and I got so fired up like it really just


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Paula Fryer: struck a chord with me, and I was just so fired I was like, yes, I'm doing this, and then he's like, Oh, I forgot to take role


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Paula Fryer: and


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Paula Fryer: And then he, you know, he goes through the whole role, and I'm still sitting there, you see, like did anybody not call, you know, not have their name called, and I like raise my hand.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: And turns out I was in the senior.


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Paula Fryer: Like creative writing class. And my, I have them like next period, I guess.


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Paula Fryer: So I was very embarrassed, because once I looked around. I was like, Oh, yeah, these people look a lot older than I do. But he was so nice, and he was like, Okay, I'll see you next period. But I I kept after that one class. I kept a journal, I mean still, to this day I have a journal, I was, like, you know, 40 years later, or whatever you know, and it just that's what got me started writing.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Wow, that's amazing.


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Paula Fryer: So you never know how you're gonna affect somebody's life. You know, it could be yeah. Your accident.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yes, and so I'm sure you're familiar with morning pages.


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Paula Fryer: No,


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Oh, okay, have you? Have you ever heard of the artist's way.


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Paula Fryer: No.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Okay? Oh, my gosh!


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So Julia Cameron is


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Miriam Burlakovsky: is a I don't know she's an author. But she is a group of like a writing guru, and she has this book called The Artist Way, and it's in it. She talks about the morning pages and it's meant to be us like every morning you


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Miriam Burlakovsky: the way she conceived it was. You wrote 3 pages longhand, and just to get everything out of your brain before you actually start writing for your work.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: It's just like stream of consciousness doesn't need to be read or edited. And so every morning she would do this


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Miriam Burlakovsky: practice morning pages, and then


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Miriam Burlakovsky: And then start her writing her written work after that, because her head was clear and she felt organized and already accomplished, and


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Paula Fryer: That's a good way to kind of break through. Break the seal cause. Yeah, it can be hard when you just like.


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Paula Fryer: sit down and start writing a book.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: That's a good point, too. Yeah, just getting that momentum feeling like, Oh, I already I already approached. So I'm okay. I'm good to go right.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, yeah, because I mean, so


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Paula Fryer: just the back story. This is my second book, my 1st book,


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Paula Fryer: is still not out in the world because I'm I'm pitching it right now, but it's actually a ROM-com, and it's my 1st and it it's tied in to speak up because it is about a female software developer who has a difficult boss.


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Paula Fryer: say the least. I call him a boss hole


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Paula Fryer: and she has a very difficult boss, and so


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Paula Fryer: she ends up falling in love with his son, the boss's son, which which is which I love, because you know, he doesn't really like that, but her trajectory is learning how to speak up and how to advocate for herself. And so the book, even though it's a romance, because I love romance novels. It has this kind of


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Paula Fryer: thread through it that I've carried into my nonfiction book. Speak up.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Awesome.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah. So she kind of learns how to how to speak for herself. She learns how to advocate for herself. She


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Paula Fryer: build self confidence, like all these things that I talk about and speak up happens to this character, Megan in in my, in my ROM-com.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Oh, cool! That sounds! I I want to read it. Can I read it? Can I be the 1st Reader.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, it's it's done, it's getting. It's getting pitched by agents and things like that. So so a lot of times when you


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Paula Fryer: when you're going through this process of pitching your book to agents, they say, you know. So you don't drive yourself crazy like, write another book or start another book, and I was like, Well, you know, what can I do? And so this is just my passion is about


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Paula Fryer: women speaking up and being heard and all that. So I was like, well, I'm gonna write a nonfiction book. Because I have so much, just experience professionally in it. And yeah, and and in workforce development and recruitment and Hr, and all that stuff and mentoring, I've been mentoring people for a really long time as well. So it kind of all has fit together and work together, and I and it's just so fun.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Awesome, and I love the different modalities like some people


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Miriam Burlakovsky: learn from nonfiction. Other people like me learn from fiction. And so it's it's almost like you're teaching the same content. But in 2 different modalities, right?


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, one is hands on approach, and the other one is like the story approach, you know, and I think both are


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Paula Fryer: are just as useful. And because when I when I my main objective, when I wrote my Romcom, that's called on the menu, my main objective was really to just


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Paula Fryer: bring that to light, but make it in a fun in a fun way. But I had read kind of addicted to like women's literature and romance novels and things like that. So I'd read so many and and every book I read it was always the man who came in and was the hero, no matter what, if the whole book was about the woman and she fell in love with somebody, the man kind of


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Paula Fryer: one way or the other, save the day.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Paula Fryer: And I was like, I want to write a book where the woman is her own hero.


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Paula Fryer: and the man compliments her, but doesn't complete her.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Paula Fryer: And I was just so passionate about that, and still am. And so that is what set off this whole whole thing of writing a book. And so


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Paula Fryer: I wrote this, you know 90,000 word ROM-com and


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Paula Fryer: it was such an experience. It was the hardest thing I've ever done by far by far with writing a book, so I I didn't tell anybody about it. I'm a believer that 1st 6 months. When I wrote my book. I didn't tell anybody about it, because I'm a believer. When you have an idea.


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Paula Fryer: you just gotta run with it, and you can't listen to what other people say, you know, and I didn't want anybody telling me what you know. You're not a you're not an author. You're not a writer. You don't have a Master's degree in writing. You. Don't you know this, that, or the other? And I also didn't want people to ask me? Is it almost done, or when is it going to be done? Or you know, I just wanted to be focused and and work on it, and kind of see where I went with it on my own without anybody else's. Say so.


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Paula Fryer: so yeah. I wrote. I wrote it out 6 months. I wrote the draft


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Paula Fryer: and I had somebody read it. I had a couple of people read it, and they're like, it's good, but it's really raw, it's super raw, you know. And so so then I realized, okay, I got to learn how to write a book. There are tricks to the to the trade that I don't know. And I was so happy that I just was able to get it out on paper, because that is the hardest thing is to just write it.


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Paula Fryer: you know. So I was like, Okay, I've done this. I cannot stop. I've got to get this baby out in the world. So then I basically got an Mfa learning how to write a book through podcasts and and workshops and webinars. I joined some clubs I joined like a critique club.


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Paula Fryer: I did did all the things and


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Paula Fryer: I think I've I've edited it like went through like 8 or 9 edits


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Paula Fryer: with critiques, and just learned all about


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Paula Fryer: formula. You know, books are very formulaic, especially romance novels are very formulaic. I mean, every book, every movie has a formula to it. If you, if you know the formula, and you start now that I've learned formula. Whenever I watch anything I'm like, oh, yeah, there's the there's the beats, you know, that you have to write


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Paula Fryer: into a novel. So so anyway. So I've learned all of that stuff and and yeah, but it was definitely a journey, and probably the hardest thing I've ever done.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Wow!


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, they don't teach you that even in English. They don't tell you all the business side of it, right?


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I mean.


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Paula Fryer: Then you. Then you write a book, and then you have to. I mean you can self publish it. But


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Paula Fryer: I mean, if you if you go the traditional route getting an agent and a publisher, I mean, that is like that is really a business right there in itself, you know.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So tell us a little bit about that. That process like like, how do you find an agent like, what do you


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Miriam Burlakovsky: like you created this baby, you know.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: This baby that you're very proud of. And then and you've gotten so much input from all these different people who are in the industry and critiquing and giving you constructive feedback. And and then what do you? Where do you go from? There.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah. So I mean, the thing with critiquing. Is that so? You do.


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Paula Fryer: Once you kind of write a novel


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Paula Fryer: you go through like beta readers, for example, where you get a group of people, and they'll read your book and give you feedback on it. And that's really helpful. And then critiquers, too, like I did a kind of a club where there was other authors, and we critiqued each other's work, and that was really really helpful.


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Paula Fryer: And so once once you're done, you pitch it to agents. And there's actually a website called Query Tracker.


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Paula Fryer: And you do you just research agents and you find out who's looking for books in your genre and who's open to, you know, new authors, new publications, that type of thing. So it takes a lot of research, and then you send out letters to them, and you send out. You know your 1st 3 chapters, or whatever, and they let you know


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Paula Fryer: if they're interested or not. They'll either say, No, thank you. It's not really up my alley, not really something I'm I want to do. Because basically, a literary agent is kind of like an agent that an actor would get.


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Paula Fryer: So once you get the agent, the agent is the one that pitches it to the publisher.


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Paula Fryer: just like in just like an actor's agent would pitch it to like a movie production, or whatever a literary agent pitches it to like


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Paula Fryer: England publishing or random House. You know those types of things. So there's so many steps. That's the other thing, too, like you think. Oh, my gosh, I I wrote a book, you know. That's the epitome. I finished this, and then it's like, Oh, no, that's not. That's like that's almost like the easy part, right? It really is, unless you go. You know self publishing route, which


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Paula Fryer: there's that's got its challenges as well. But


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Paula Fryer: but yes, you get a literary agent, and some people will say, Yes, I'm interested, and they want to read more of it. They might want to read the 1st


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Paula Fryer: 10 chapters, or they might want to read the whole book, and then you kind of negotiate with them, and then and then that's not the end. So let's say you find an agent, then the agent is working with you to do rewrites on your novel and then getting it ready to pitch to publishers. So once you get an agent, they say it could take like 2 years for your book to actually be published.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Wow, yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: No.


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Paula Fryer: So another reason why a lot of people self publish is because.


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Paula Fryer: you know, it's much, much faster.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Now, did you self publish? Speak up.


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Paula Fryer: I did. Yeah, I decided just to go for that one but I used a lot of


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Paula Fryer: professional help like with the layout, I, and making sure that


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Paula Fryer: you know I there aren't errors and that type of thing. So I used a professional proofreader and I


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Paula Fryer: I had a designer design the cover. So I didn't cut any corners in that respect, because I wanted it to be, you know, professionally done. But for me, for this type of book. I wanted to get it out in the world. I didn't want to wait, because even even nonfiction books, sometimes they can take a little bit shorter time getting published, but in general, you know, it's still like


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Paula Fryer: I mean, 6 months is fast more like a year to get those out.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: And then, if it's nonfiction, I mean, think technology is moving so fast that if you wait too long it could be could be outdated.


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Paula Fryer: True, yeah, yeah, could be outdated.


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Paula Fryer: it's a it's a crazy world, publishing publishing right? Now, it's pretty crazy, there's a lot happening.


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Paula Fryer: From what I understand, you know it's not like it. It's not like it used to be. But I think self publishing really gives you some more options, too, you know, which is nice.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah. Awesome.


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Paula Fryer: But one thing that's been really interesting on this journey is, so in speak up. I I talk about things like having


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Paula Fryer: self-doubt and questioning yourself, and fear of failure. All these things. And as I was publishing my book, speak up. I went through all of those things, and it was so kind of


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Paula Fryer: ironic, I guess, because here I was like having my own self doubt, questioning. Did I be doing this like.


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Paula Fryer: am I? Am I, you know. Am I really going to do this? This is crazy and having those fears to like? Oh, if people hate it, or what if blah blah! You know all the what if all the worries that you have, and all of the things that I talked about, even talk about like not worrying


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Paula Fryer: because it's wasted energy in my book. And how to get over that kind of like that inner, inner negative critic. That tells you you're not smart enough or you're not this or you're not that you know that Internet inner negative critic is always in your ear. And so I talk about that a lot, because I think that really gets into people's heads and and stops them from doing some really important things. But I was definitely experiencing that so? All the things that I talk about in my book overcoming


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Paula Fryer: I was I was having, and I was.


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Paula Fryer: I was trying to take my own advice.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, right?


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Miriam Burlakovsky: We have a lot to say. But to actually put it into practice is really hard.


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Paula Fryer: Really hard. Yeah, it's never easy. I always say just baby steps


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Paula Fryer: and making little habits. So one of my favorite tiny things that you can do to kind of like, build self confidence and get over that. That fear of speaking up is start by asking questions.


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Paula Fryer: So we've all been in that place, whether it's like you're in a classroom or you're in a meeting, and


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Paula Fryer: you know either the instructor or the leader. Whoever says, does anybody have a question, or there's a break for questions, or whatever. And you have a question, you know, and you want to ask it. But you're like you don't want to look dumb. You don't want to look like you don't belong there, and you don't want to look like the dumb one in the room or the you know you feel like, Oh, my gosh! I'm the only one. I must not be qualified to be here because I have this question. And it seems so basic


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Paula Fryer: people are gonna laugh at me, or people are, gonna wonder why I'm here. But then you then you ask it. And other people like, Oh, yeah, I was wondering that, too, you know, or like, yeah, great question, you know. And


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Paula Fryer: and just the odds are that if you have the question, so do other people.


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Paula Fryer: and I always try to remember that. But just speaking up and asking a question is a great kind of like entry way into starting to speak up.


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Paula Fryer: So I also think


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Paula Fryer: it kind of shows your presence, too. It shows that you're engaged. It shows that you're interested in what's going on. It. It shows that you have confidence even to be able to ask a question. So I think if someone is like, well, what's what's the?


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Paula Fryer: How can I start speaking up, or I really want to speak up? But I'm you know I'm intimidated, or whatever


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Paula Fryer: that is like a gateway into speaking up is just just ask one question, just like whenever you go into a room or class, or or whatever it is, just like, I'm gonna ask a question like, or even, you know, a clarification. So if you don't have a question, a clarification, you know, can you just need to spend.


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Paula Fryer: Say that again, or what did you mean by blah blah? And it just kind of like gets your feet wet in being heard.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I love that.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: That's a great sort of


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I don't know just intention for any any setting going in and asking a question, and


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Miriam Burlakovsky: having that practice with your voice and and your presence.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I feel like so many women are.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Well, we're societally, you know, conditioned to be smaller and smaller, right? And so many women are not taking up the space that they deserve.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: and allowing


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Miriam Burlakovsky: these practices into your life where you can speak up and build that confidence, and build that momentum to take up more space, to ask the questions that need to be asked


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Miriam Burlakovsky: to be, you know, have a seat at the table that needs a woman's seat, you know. A female perspective, like all of those things.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I think, are really important. So I love that.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, yeah, it's the easy way just to kind of break break through that barrier. Another thing I like to suggest is just how you walk into a room like walk into a room like you own it, you know, like I talk about posture, even stand up straight, stand up tall and just that, you know. And then take your seat at the table. I give an example


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Paula Fryer: of in my book about Cheryl Sandberg, actually at Facebook. She gives this example where somebody was invited to this big meeting, and there were 4 women that


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Paula Fryer: that worked with him and and came along, and they actually sat on the outskirts of the table so like against the wall, so they didn't take it. They didn't literally take a seat at the table. They sat against the wall, and she was she like? Invited them to sit at the table, and they're like No, no, no, no!


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Paula Fryer: And she was like practically instructed like, Get over here and sit down. But you know they didn't feel like they were. They belonged there, and they totally did, and she wanted them there, but they voluntarily did literally did not take a seat at the table when they could have


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Paula Fryer: so


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Paula Fryer: take your seat at the table literally like own that space and and show your value, you know, because


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Paula Fryer: you're there for a reason like you were hired for a reason you were hired for your contributions. You were hired for your experience. You were hired because of your interview. You were hired for a reason, so so it


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Paula Fryer: show your value.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Heck, yeah.


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Paula Fryer: Heck, yeah, I guess.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I get so fired up about it.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: No, I love it. I mean the passion comes through.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, I am so passionate about it.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: What advice would you give to your younger self?


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Miriam Burlakovsky: It can be about publishing or work, or it can be personal life, or anything.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah.


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Paula Fryer: 1. 1 thing that I've really noticed through life is that no experience is wasted. And I love that because


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Paula Fryer: sometimes you might. Okay, here's here's 1 example, you know, when you when you're in school, and you're like in algebra or whatever. And you're like, why do I need to know this. This is. This is a waste of time. Well, you find out later that a lot of that is pretty valuable, especially if like, if you're if you're remodeling the house, or something like some of that math comes in handy.


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Paula Fryer: and then I paid more attention to that but every experience like, you know, I started out as an event planner. When I 1st got out of


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Paula Fryer: college, and just that was so helpful, like learning how to organize and learning how to lead and delegate, and I mean I would do big events like wine, festivals and air festivals, and things like that. So I learned so much that way. And there's there's things that even though I do something totally different now, it's still habits, or, you know, good skills, good traits that I learned from that job way back. Then.


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Paula Fryer: I I kind of talk about.


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Paula Fryer: I was talking to some high school students recently and really thinking about like


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Paula Fryer: education and career trajectory, and I pinpointed 4 traits that I think really add up to a successful career whatever that looks like for you. And the 1st one. The 1st trait is curiosity, I think, being curious, especially when you're well throughout life. But when you're younger, just being curious about things. How do things work? Or being curious about people, you know, whatever it is, just


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Paula Fryer: being curious. And when I was in 7th grade I went to


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Paula Fryer: I took French in 7th grade, and something about that just struck my curiosity. Like


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Paula Fryer: I loved the language I loved. You know the posters that the teacher had on the wall of the Eiffel Tower and everything, and I became so curious about France, and it turned into my kind of my passion, which is the second trait that I think just having a passion. And it doesn't have to be, you know, if you're a


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Paula Fryer: coder, it doesn't necessarily have to be like software development is your passion, but just having a passion like something that you're that you care about, that you're kind of like rooted in, you know. I think is really important, even if it's a lot of times like I told the high school kids like, just think about what you'd love to do when you were little, because a lot of times we're told


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Paula Fryer: our passions are important, or they're silly or whatever. But I think a lot of times you can go back to your childhood and find out what you loved, and that's like your true passion, like I still love to pretend now writing books, so you never know


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Paula Fryer: so passion. So I was so curious about France that I became passionate about it, and I ended up studying it all the way through college, and I was an exchange student. And then I went to go work for Disney in France, Disney in Paris, and I was doing events there and different things there. Yeah, but my passion, really like helped drive me of what I wanted to do.


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Paula Fryer: But to get there I had to have determination. So that's the 3rd thing that I talked about. You have to be. If you really want to go for something you have to be determined. You know you have to just set set your mind to it. And then


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Paula Fryer: the 4th thing, which is persistence, and that's what what reminded me of what you were talking about is because you know, you're gonna encounter roadblocks.


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Paula Fryer: Things are gonna happen throughout your throughout your life and throughout your career. But it's how you are persistent, and how you kind of encounter a roadblock, and you pivot and grow and learn from it, and then keep going. You know. You don't let it. Don't let those roadblocks stop. You. Just keep on going.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So I heard persistence, determination, passion. What was the 1st one.


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Paula Fryer: Curiosity.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Curiosity.


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Paula Fryer: None.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Those are great.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: That's great advice.


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Paula Fryer: Now we're not, I think. Oh, go ahead.


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Paula Fryer: I think curiosity takes you so many places, you know. It's like it opens you up to people to, you know, just being curious about


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Paula Fryer: people's lives and and what they do. And people love to talk about themselves. You know you never know where, where that can take you.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, for sure.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: agreed. That's the best way. I remember going through sales training. And and they always said, like, ask people about themselves. People love to talk about themselves, and I know it's like a you know, it's a sales strategy. But also it was a fabulous strategy for me as I went into psychology, because that's what people do in psychology, in therapy, they talk about themselves. And so.


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Paula Fryer: Okay.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Baseball.


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Paula Fryer: That's that's why they're there.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Talk about all those. No, but talk about skills that you know every experience


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Miriam Burlakovsky: is, you know, there's a skill behind every experience or a reason behind every experience is, you know, I


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I was in mortgage lending before and personal training before I went back to grad school, trying to find a way to help people achieve human potential, their own potential right?


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Miriam Burlakovsky: But I tried different paths and it didn't work. And then I found psychology. And I. I'm parlaying those same skills


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Miriam Burlakovsky: into supporting people and helping kids shine. So it's it's really I. I'm a big believer in everything happens for a reason. And every experience is worthwhile.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, but you did that kind of it sounds like you did that, too, where you were.


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Paula Fryer: you didn't let the road roadblocks necessarily stop because the roadblock can also be like, Hmm! I don't really think this is exactly for me, but I'm gonna I'm gonna learn from it. I'm gonna pivot, and I'm gonna keep going and find


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Paula Fryer: what is, you know. So I had I had one example of. I started kind of a a lifestyle business. This was kind of like back when Facebook 1st came out, like Facebook was still


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Paula Fryer: all about meeting your like high school friends. It wasn't. It wasn't like this platform to sell stuff and everything. But yeah, I started this lifestyle business where I, you know, did blogs and made jewelry. I was like featured in women's same magazine. And I was writing then, too. And it was so much fun. And I but like to have a website.


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Paula Fryer: You had to kind of build it. You had to learn some coding and things like that, like I said, Facebook was just for meeting up with your old friends and all that. So I really had to learn how to build a website. And


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Paula Fryer: I, I was missing a component in that because


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Paula Fryer: it kind of petered out after a few years. It did. Okay, but I wasn't really like I don't know if I was that determined, and I don't know if I was that passionate about it, whereas I started that lifestyle company around the same time that somebody else that I knew


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Paula Fryer: did, and they were very similar companies, but she had fire. She was like so passionate about it, and it's like a multimillion dollar company now, hers, not mine, because mine fizzled out. But I learned so much from that experience. And I


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Paula Fryer: and I, I learned that. Okay, that's not exactly my thing, you know, for one reason or another. But I also learned about coding and about building websites. And that's how I got into that really helped me when I got into technical technical recruiting and into the software space because I did have some.


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Paula Fryer: You know, I was pretty technical, and I had a lot of background in it. So you never know how those things are gonna work out and flow, you know, and what's


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Paula Fryer: how they're gonna like help help you down the road. So no experience is wasted.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, love, that no experience is wasted, awesome.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So you're working on you're pitching the not or the fiction book the Romcom


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Miriam Burlakovsky: you've got you just published your nonfiction. Speak up.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: and what else is going on in your life? What do you? What lights you up.


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Paula Fryer: What likes me up? Well, I so speak up is a series. Both of my books are a series of 3, but so I'm working out my my next book after speak up. It is going to be a series, but it's probably going to be geared towards.


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Paula Fryer: and college like university aged women, and then right out of university, because.


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Paula Fryer: like I was talking about asking questions, is such a good entry point to to, you know, building self-confidence and all that. So I think that's a really good platform for women that age to start


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Paula Fryer: to start building that up. And and as they get into the workforce and also taking control of their career instead of just kind of


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Paula Fryer: okay, this is what my parents wanted me to do. Or, you know, this is what my major is. So this is what I'm doing, but really kind of dig into to what that looks like in in taking charge of your career and owning your space at that age. So I'm never stopping. It's hard for me to to even


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Paula Fryer: not think about like I'm trying to make myself have a little break from writing, and it's like, I don't know if I can. I'm already thinking about the the second one that that's gonna be coming out so.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: That's why your patience coming out. So that's okay.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, I mean, it's what it really is, what lights me up. It makes me. It makes me so happy. But I wanted to my intention with all of this, too, is to build a community.


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Paula Fryer: So I would love to build a community, have


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Paula Fryer: people on Instagram that follow me at Polymathias author. But


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Paula Fryer: But I want people to be able to start talking about this more and having a a platform for it, because I think, at least in my experience, and the experience of a lot of the women that I talked to was that you kind of feel alone in it, like, have you ever? Have you ever been in a meeting, or you've been at work, or whatever? And somebody just says something to you.


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Paula Fryer: and it just


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Paula Fryer: you kind of freeze like it just doesn't sit right, you know you freeze, and you're like Whoa!


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Paula Fryer: But you don't know what to say. You don't know what to say back. You don't know how to handle it. You don't know what to say back, and so I think we've all been there, and I think it's kind of unique to women in the workplace.


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Paula Fryer: I'm sure it happens, you know, at home, too, but


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Paula Fryer: I don't know if in the workplace it happens to men as much as it does to women


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Paula Fryer: and and I. But I don't think women talk about it


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Paula Fryer: as much, and but they're really not alone. I mean you. Every woman that I talked to has had some kind of experience like that, no matter what


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Paula Fryer: you know, and it's not necessarily coming from a man could come from a woman, you know, with the comment, or whatever it is.


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Paula Fryer: But


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Paula Fryer: I want women to know what to say. You know or know how to react, or even just to know. I'm I'm not alone in this. I'm not alone feeling like this, like feeling kind of taken aback or feeling


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Paula Fryer: that shocked feeling where you kind of you almost go numb when somebody says something to you, and you're just like, you know, what should I do about this? We'll do it. And you question you. Second question, you second, guess yourself.


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Paula Fryer: So so my my overall intention is to really build like a community where


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Paula Fryer: we can. We can talk about it. And we can say, here's how I handled it, or here's what happened to me. And so you know. And my other intention is to have male advocates, too. There's things I have a chapter in my book just about how males can, or men at the workplace can


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Paula Fryer: can also speak up and advocate for women and making it a place where everybody feels like they're heard, you know. And I call it I say


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Paula Fryer: men shouldn't, because a lot of times men are like hesitant to say anything because they don't want to step on a woman's toes. So in my book I talk about it's not being the hero. It's having somebody's back.


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Paula Fryer: that's the difference.


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Paula Fryer: So you're not like here I am to save the day, you know. Step aside. Let me take care of this. It's more like I I saw that I heard that I don't like that either. I don't agree with that, and and at the time saying something, and knowing that you're supported at work, you know, and what's acceptable and what's not.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Man that would make such a big, big difference like if I


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I mean some of the situations I've been in


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Miriam Burlakovsky: in the corporate environment before I went into education were


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Miriam Burlakovsky: you know, I had that freeze response.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: and it was in a group of people and had somebody said.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: hey? That was messed up like, are you okay?


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Miriam Burlakovsky: That would have been huge, a huge comfort, a huge you know, confidence builder for me, and also


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Miriam Burlakovsky: affirming that you know there was, there was a boundary crossed.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, and that's not okay.


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Paula Fryer: Right? Yeah, yeah, because you do. When nobody else says anything you do. You second, guess yourself like


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Paula Fryer: you're kind of like, did anybody else hear or say that, and or see that. And why wouldn't they say anything? But I remember personally something happened to me, and asking later on, asking asking my colleague like.


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Paula Fryer: Why didn't you say anything.


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Paula Fryer: And he said, That's exactly what he said was.


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Paula Fryer: I didn't want to step on your toes like I didn't want to speak for you and I, and I said


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Paula Fryer: I didn't need you to speak for me, but just having my back and and speaking up with me would have been really, really


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Paula Fryer: supportive and awesome, you know. And and just talking about that, I think, having those conversations


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Paula Fryer: with people that you work with, because right now nobody talks about it, nobody talks about it.


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Paula Fryer: I should.


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Paula Fryer: We need to.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: And also, I think maybe not. Everything needs to be so punitive, you know.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: like there should. There are. There's a platform or a framework for nonviolent communication and restorative conversations that


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Miriam Burlakovsky: can be a learning experience for anybody involved rather than you know.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: getting so like for the for the other party. The


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I don't know what the word is for, and I don't want to call them a perpetrator or something, but you know the person who whose behavior elicited that freeze response like that's a learning opportunity for them, too, because they probably are not. They don't have the capacity


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Miriam Burlakovsky: to censor themselves in a way, or inhibit old programming, you know.


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Paula Fryer: Hmm.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: If they say something, you know, misogynistic or bigoted, or something like that, like there's


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Miriam Burlakovsky: or you know, physically, get in your space. That's not in a way that's not appropriate for work.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: like, there's something there's some learning that has to be done on that part person's part as well. And so having, you know, an Hr that is.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: trained in restorative practices and nonviolent communication, and or non nonviolent communication


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Miriam Burlakovsky: would be really helpful rather than just being like, okay? Well, if you do, if it happens again, you're fired, or you know.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Which there's a place for that. There's a place for that. Okay.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, that's true. I mean, a lot of times. It's not intentional. It's just a way that somebody is


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Paula Fryer: has been taught to speak to people, or you know, whatever it is.


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Paula Fryer: it's not necessarily they're trying to make you feel like that. It's just they're not realizing it.


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Paula Fryer: But they're never going to realize it unless


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Paula Fryer: they're told, you know, unless they're told that it's not okay or that that's how it makes you feel. But when you're feeling like that. It's really hard to say. I mean, you have to be


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Paula Fryer: so in your body. And so you know, to be able to say, Whoa! Whoa, Whoa, whoa, you know. Not. Okay, not okay.


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Paula Fryer: But yeah. In my book I do give some kind of tips for that like


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Paula Fryer: standing up. If you're sitting down. Stand up, you know, if someone's talking to you like that, or hold up a finger, you know the wait a second finger or


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Paula Fryer: call them by their 1st and last name.


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Paula Fryer: you know. Hey, Billy? Bob Smith? Not okay.


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Paula Fryer: You know there's different things you can do or like if you're at a if you're at a conference table to stand up and kind of like mosey around the table. You know you're kind of


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Paula Fryer: making your presence known. So there are some some things you can do. But what I really encourage people is to to practice them. I think that's how you learn stuff you have to practice that you have to kind of like. Read about it. Think about it.


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Paula Fryer: practice what you're gonna say, you know, if some, if you go in a meeting time and time again, and you don't speak up. I recommend, like.


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Paula Fryer: after the meeting, immediately, write down what you wish. You would have said.


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Paula Fryer: Make some notes. What would you have said? And then practice saying those. And of course, in the meeting you're not gonna say the exact same thing, because meetings are gonna change. But practice hearing yourself recording yourself, even


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Paula Fryer: speaking up. So you're like used to doing it, you know, even if even though you're a room by yourself, just practicing doing it is so helpful so that


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Paula Fryer: the next time you, before you go in the room you're like, okay, I'm going to ask a question, or I'm going to, you know. Just just make one comment, or, you know, just set some some


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Paula Fryer: some things, some goals for you to do that contribute, because


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Paula Fryer: I think at the end of the day people want to be heard. It's not like you enjoy sitting in a meeting, and just kind of shrinking, you know you probably have some great contributions to make. And the thing is, too, from a business perspective that a lot of


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Paula Fryer: people don't think about is that, besides the fact that you were hired from for a reason, businesses are more successful when they have a diverse approach, you know, because their customers or their clients, or whoever it is, are diverse or not just one type of person. So your contributions are really valuable.


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Paula Fryer: and by not speaking up, it's not like you're helping anybody by not speaking up, you know.


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Paula Fryer: So


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Paula Fryer: a company that listens to all their employees is more successful than one that shuts them down. At the end of the day.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, circling back to your when you were a recruiter, and you saw the need for diversity.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: How did you address that.


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Paula Fryer: I went. I dove deep. I went real deep into why? Because I was mainly recruiting for developers, software developers at the time. And


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Paula Fryer: so at 1st I was like, Okay, well, I just need to recruit more women. And then I found out there's not that many women who are even in technology. Or, you know, software developers. And so then I kind of dug deep into that. And I did things like start I would get panels of women together who were in stem fields, like


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Paula Fryer: software developers or engineers, or whatever it was, and talk to high school girls and tell them, because what I figured out was, if you can't see yourself in a job.


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Paula Fryer: you don't, you're not gonna do it, are you?


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Paula Fryer: You're not going to go for it. It's a lot easier if you see somebody else doing it that you can relate to. And so that's kind of how I started this whole journey. Was just trying to figure out why there weren't more women in tech. Because.


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Paula Fryer: you know, traditionally, Tech has paid really well. You can work from home a lot of times, or has more flex time. You know. It has all these great benefits.


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Paula Fryer: But there's just not a lot of women in it. For a multiple multitude of reasons.


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Paula Fryer: you know, I went to


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Paula Fryer: like a data science class at Cal Poly, and it was literally 40 males, and like 2 2 females in the class, and it smelled like dirty gym socks. I was like, well, this isn't helping anything.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: No.


349
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Paula Fryer: So there's lots to uncover there that I got kind of obsessed with that


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Paula Fryer: that whole thing, and that led me down a kind of crazy path.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: So. As you were speaking to high school and college students.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: What I mean.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: what kinds of actions really moved the needle? What do you think? Or were you able to move the needle? I mean, it's that's a systemic issue. That's not just a 1 person like you need a team.


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Paula Fryer: I was I was able to. So that so when I recruited for software, I


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Paula Fryer: improved the diversity by 30%. So we had 30% women, which is crazy.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Oh!


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Paula Fryer: Became an expert in the field of


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Paula Fryer: recruiting. Diversely, 30% is like unheard of.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah.


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Paula Fryer: And and then


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Paula Fryer: I've worked in kind of workforce development and recruiting for women to work in manufacturing fields because manufacturing is really growing, too, and manufacturing doesn't mean like putting widgets together. You know


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Paula Fryer: that kind of process. But it it's very technical these days. There's lots of project management and organization and all these things involved in it. So again, where I started had like 3% women. And now it's like 50%.


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Paula Fryer: So yeah, so I I've learned a lot about it. And it really goes back to


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Paula Fryer: being able to show women what the jobs are and what it looks like for them, and so finding


365
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Paula Fryer: some key players who are willing to kind of talk about what they do and what they like about it, and what it's really like, you know, because


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Paula Fryer: a lot of women think that those careers


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Paula Fryer: are like, take software development. It's kind of it's known. For, like your Coder in a dark room, you know, just like knocking out the code. You don't talk to anybody. It's very, you know. You just have your headphones on, and that's it. But coding is actually very collaborative. You have lots of meetings and lots of communication and and same with manufacturing and different kinds of technology. It's collaborative. You have meetings. It's troubleshooting. It's problem solving.


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Paula Fryer: It's it can be creative, too. It can be really creative. So


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Paula Fryer: but people just don't know about that side of it. And so getting that the word out about that side of those things is what's super helpful, and then finding some great examples, and and, you know, having them kind of be mentors to other people. That is kind of the secret sauce that I found in doing all of this.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: That's great.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, if you have I mean, you see that with


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Miriam Burlakovsky: other mar marginalized group? Not not just women. If if there's a


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Miriam Burlakovsky: If there's a doctor lawyer.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: you know, teacher, whatever there is in the family, they're able. This the child is able to see themselves in that role right, and aspire to that. If they don't see that that


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Miriam Burlakovsky: that role represented, then it's very difficult for them to to imagine themselves in that role.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: and we want to have options. But


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Miriam Burlakovsky: But you know, in the more models that you have, the more options you have and


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Miriam Burlakovsky: and that's for women, too.


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Paula Fryer: And you.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: I think.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Do you remember Winnie Cooper from Wonder years.


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Paula Fryer: Yeah. Love her.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah, she wrote a book.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: probably more than 10 years ago, but about females in math.


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Paula Fryer: I remember because she went to like Yale or Harvard. She was a genius pretty much in math. Yeah, she was she's brilliant.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Yeah. And it was. It was eye opening for me at the time, I think, because I was


387
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Miriam Burlakovsky: I mean, obviously interested in psychology, but but the whole stereotype threat concept. So


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Miriam Burlakovsky: your beliefs around your abilities influence your performance. And so when women are continue, or girls are continually told that they're bad at math, or they expect to be bad at math, and they're going to have that self-fulfilling prophecy.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: And so


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Miriam Burlakovsky: It's just just fun to to look at that. Not fun, I should say, but


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Paula Fryer: Interesting.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Interesting, and you know, Sparks, my curiosity.


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Paula Fryer: No! A lot of girls


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Paula Fryer: Our.


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Paula Fryer: you know, lead in math and sciences and all that stuff. But once they get in like 7th grade, there there becomes this kind of stigma around it, and they kind of


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Paula Fryer: lose. I don't know if they lose interest, but they kind of drop out of it for one reason or another. And there's just like


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00:56:17.986 --> 00:56:23.765
Paula Fryer: not something girls do you know, quote unquote, or or


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00:56:23.896 --> 00:56:29.895
Paula Fryer: there's so many reasons behind it. But that is where a big drop off happens is around 7th grade.


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Paula Fryer: And women used to lead in technology like in before the seventies. Women really led in technology, and then in the eighties. I think it was when gaming came out.


400
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Paula Fryer: That is, when games were geared towards boys.


401
00:56:51.376 --> 00:56:58.685
Paula Fryer: And this huge drop off of women in technology happened because the the games just weren't


402
00:56:58.946 --> 00:57:01.946
Paula Fryer: 4 girls. They just weren't. And and


403
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Paula Fryer: the boys just took off, you know, and then, because they were so interested in the games, they wanted to know how they were made, and they wanted to know. You know, all the things, and it it just changed the the whole dynamics of it.


404
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Miriam Burlakovsky: Now, every boy wants to be a gamer. Youtube.


405
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Paula Fryer: Yeah.


406
00:57:24.046 --> 00:57:25.226
Miriam Burlakovsky: Whatever.


407
00:57:25.226 --> 00:57:27.875
Paula Fryer: The 1st computer program? Or was it was a female.


408
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Miriam Burlakovsky: Chilly.


409
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Miriam Burlakovsky: Interesting.


410
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Miriam Burlakovsky: Well,


411
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Miriam Burlakovsky: wow! I feel like we could probably talk all day. But, we're coming to the end of our time.


412
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Miriam Burlakovsky: and I wanted to just come full circle


413
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Miriam Burlakovsky: and say, You know what does?


414
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Miriam Burlakovsky: Maybe, looking back at your 4 traits?


415
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Miriam Burlakovsky: What do you imagine with those you know the curiosity, the passion, determination, persistence, what do you imagine


416
00:58:11.796 --> 00:58:24.885
Miriam Burlakovsky: for somebody who's embodying all of those things? And I know we're not perfect. None of us are but but just an ideal, you know. Avatar, of that. What do you see? What do you see for her trajectory and her life, and her happiness?


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Paula Fryer: Wow! That's a good question. I'm trying to live that right now. Because I I still have all those traits, and I think, keeping your curiosity and your passion, and and being determined, and having persistence and an open mindset, you know, about being to willing to fail and learn and grow


418
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Paula Fryer: for somebody who can kind of embrace all those. I think you're unstoppable. You're really unstoppable.


419
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Paula Fryer: If you put those to use.


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Paula Fryer: I think nothing can stop you. But the thing is to be kind to yourself as well. You know, you're gonna hit. Roadblocks and your things are gonna happen. Things are gonna pop up in life.


421
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Paula Fryer: And just


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Paula Fryer: persistence wins. That's what I I always tell myself that, too, like the people that are really successful have really done things


423
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Paula Fryer: have had persistence, because that is the hardest thing, because it's so much easier to stop.


424
00:59:32.216 --> 00:59:39.217
Paula Fryer: It's so much easier to talk yourself out of something, or to let somebody talk yourself out of something, or to be like


425
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Paula Fryer: oh, well, that was a good idea, but moving on, you know. But persistence.


426
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Paula Fryer: If you have that and you can keep going. Keep learning. Keep going, then. That is the key.


427
00:59:54.956 --> 01:00:03.716
Paula Fryer: That's the key. So you know, for people that are really passionate about something really determined, curious to keep learning


428
01:00:04.276 --> 01:00:07.615
Paula Fryer: and keep that persistence going. I think you're just unstoppable.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Amazing, Paula, where can we find out more about you and your book?


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Paula Fryer: Yeah, thanks for asking. So I have a website, Paula Mathias, and that's MATH. ias.com. You can order my book there on my website or on Amazon. Speak up. It's called, and also on Instagram, Paula Mathias, author


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01:00:32.906 --> 01:00:55.416
Paula Fryer: on Instagram. I'm also on Linkedin as well, and I read a weekly article there on week on Linkedin, just about like, right now, there's a it's always a series of 5. So right now. It's kind of like about reinventing yourself. I did another series about how AI is affecting people's work and kind of


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Paula Fryer: how to how to


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Paula Fryer: sort of adopt that, or adapt that into your into your work. So I always pick a different topic. So yeah, Linkedin.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Love it. I'm gonna check it out. We'll have all of those links in the show notes.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: and please come back again and let us know how how your books are going, and and just share your your new news with us.


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Paula Fryer: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was so much fun. I love talking to you.


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Miriam Burlakovsky: Likewise. Alright, thanks, so much.


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Paula Fryer: Thanks, bye, bye.