Zaira Armendariz: Depression, Dating, and Self-Discovery

Join us as we journey alongside Zaira Armendariz, who has a BFA in Film Production and her own podcast, Complex, Like Wine.  Together, we peel back the layers of her own experience with depression and anxiety.

Zaira shares her strategies for maintaining mental wellbeing, from embracing hobbies like reading to the importance of setting boundaries. She also offers valuable insights on her journey in job searching post lay-off, breaking down the shame and stigma often associated with it.

We also delve into societal pressures associated with work and dating, and the contrasting views of different cultures regarding work-life balance, offering a refreshing take on the challenges of maintaining identity in codependent relationships and the impact of cultural programming on women. Finally, Zaira's personal experience of racism and bullying further highlights the impact of societal pressures on mental health. Tune in, to be enlightened, encouraged, and inspired by Zaira’s journey.

Follow Zaira's podcast, Complex, Like Wine, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.   
Podcast Website: Complex, Like Wine: https://www.complexlikewine.com
IG: @complexlikewine
Other links: https://linktr.ee/complexlikwine
While you're there, check out her interview with me on Episode 55!

Chapters

• 0:34 From Film to Therapy
• 15:58 Finding Balance and Prioritizing Mental Health
• 22:28 Job Titles and Dating Preferences Impact
• 36:25 Finding Yourself in Codependent Relationships
• 43:24 Racism, Bullying, Goals, Mental Health

Transcript

Miriam: 0:34

Welcome back to the Mindful Miri podcast. I'm your Miriam Burlakovsky, and today my guest is Zaira Armendariz, and I will let her introduce herself.

Zaira: 0:48

Hello, hello. Well, first, thank you for having me as a guest. I'm excited. But, yes, my name is Zaira and I connected with Miriam from Women Making Waves, our little women's group that we're part of. I also have my own podcast called Complex Like Wine, which is about mental health and wellness, so that's also how Miriam and I have talked about more connecting. I got my degree in film I'm not really practicing that anymore, but that's just kind of like my career-wise. That's where I was headed. And then, during the pandemic, I graduated 2020 for reference Pandemic, you know, no jobs available. So that was a really hard transition and, you know, finally went to therapy for the first time, took a mental health seriously, which led me to doing the podcast, which is now leading me towards pursuing a master's in positive psychology or some just type of psychology degree. We're going to see what doors open next year, but yeah, a little like quick snippet.

Miriam: 1:45

That's me Wonderful, that's great. So tell me a little bit about what you know. You said you pivoted towards mental health and positive psychology. What kinds of things led you to therapy in the first place?

Zaira: 2:05

So I grew up with an emotionally unavailable parent. My relationship with my mother we're not in speaking terms right now and our relationship has always been very unhealthy since, basically, I was a baby and so that carried a lot of trauma and a lot of work I had to do and process and it was just a very confusing childhood, to be frank, you know. You know some of the things I was taught was that love is conditional and just you know like your value of self worth is very fragile and you know, trying to process all of that that was definitely one of the more difficult things that I had carried on with me. And just really having to break down, you know, negative self talk, learning how to get myself self compassion that was probably one of the first things I learned through therapy that honestly changed my life and it's yeah, I'm so glad I finally went to therapy.

Zaira: 3:10

I'm 26 now and I went the first time two years ago, so at 24, barely learning Like, oh, I really need to take care of my mental health. You know, because, also growing up Hispanic, not that my family thinks mental health is taboo, but it's not talked about, it's not encouraged, you know, like no one's going to suggest it first, like, oh, go to therapy. It's kind of you know, like you'll be okay, figure it out. And so it came to a breaking point of just dealing with really bad depression and severe anxiety for years where I realized like I am not okay, I can't do this anymore. And so that's what led me into the journey of therapy and now, with mental health, I'm just such a huge advocate for it and I've realized how important it is, wow, thank you for sharing, of course.

Miriam: 3:57

Can I ask what anxiety and depression looked like for you?

Zaira: 4:01

Yeah, yeah. So I, the first time I remembered having life ending thoughts I was six, so it started very young and so you know, just lack of enthusiasm, not happy with anything. You know it looked like also self harming. That was all through middle school and high school and I actually didn't get my first panic anxiety attack until 16. And that, I think, was the most difficult journey between the two, and the anxiety has always. Now that I have time not dealing with anymore, I can look back on the journey how it kind of evolved.

Zaira: 4:45

During high school it was a barely chaotic time where I was having panic attacks multiple times a day, every day, just always on, you know, like survival mode. And then going into college there'd be times where maybe a month where I haven't felt an episode, but then an episode would come up and that would last weeks and the older I got I realized when they would hit, they would linger. And last year was really tough where, you know I, there was three months of just nonstop anxiety, like high levels, just not okay. And I've realized now, when I'm in that phase or that that period for too long it dips into depression and so you know I don't want to do anything. I don't want to shower, I don't want to get out of bed. It I'm glad now, this year is the first year, I can say, since being 16, where I haven't had any anxiety anymore and I haven't dealt with any depression, which is, you know, a huge blessing. I'm really thankful for therapy this year, but it I didn't realize how different a kid look for everybody.

Miriam: 5:55

Yeah, Wow, that's a very young age to start feeling those symptoms. I'm sorry for that experience. Thank you, and I hope that it brings you blessings in that you had to. You know, experience it and make make meaning from it. You know, at least make meaning from it, right.

Zaira: 6:22

Yeah, I don't regrets not the right word or like I'm not happy or thrilled. I have the experiences I did, but I'm using it as a power now, if that makes sense, where now I have that place, where, if friends are coming up to me or peers, I have a place of empathy and understanding and so I can use my experience to help somebody. So, instead of looking as like a, like a weakness or anything, I look as if you'll to power. Beautiful, I love that. It goes to you. Thank you. Yeah, lots of work, but we got there. Yeah.

Miriam: 7:00

So how did you find the right therapist or the right treatment? How long did it take you? You know how did you start your journey.

Zaira: 7:12

So I've only had two therapists, and the first one was okay, but her style was a little bit more kind of passive, of like how does that make you feel? And just that was like the only question that would be asked. And I think what I needed more was a little bit more feedback or help someone just to kind of guide me into problem solving or just like being aware of what my patterns are, my thought process, and so I was seeing her for maybe like six to eight months, you know, no, maybe a year. Those only once a month, so not too consistent. And so I kind of realized at some point like I needed something different. And then my last therapist it was I would see her every week and she was fantastic, I loved her.

Zaira: 8:07

She really was kind of chiming in, you know, helping me kind of unpack the narrative of whatever I had been telling myself and would recommend me books, just helping me be aware of patterns that I didn't realize I had. Like, if I start thinking this way, why are we thinking this way? Like let's go back to the root of what caused that, and so that helped me unpack a lot of stuff, of whether it was connected to my mom connected to my anxiety. How can I start changing and having that reframe to help? And it's always kind of funny to explain this, but you know, like I tell people jokingly, like my therapist broke up with me because we got to the point where she felt like she didn't need to help me anymore, like I got to a place where, like I was, I get down on my own feet, and so I think that's the good type of breakup that you can have when your therapist is like it's a graduation.

Zaira: 9:02

Yeah, so yeah, that's been my experience so far with therapy.

Miriam: 9:07

Oh wonderful. So it sounds like cognitive behavioral therapy probably.

Zaira: 9:12

So that umbrella EMDR, that's the. So we originally had talked about trying to do that at some point for my anxiety and everything, but thankfully I had got to a place where I did enough healing that we felt that wasn't necessary anymore. But yeah, they've only been cognitive.

Miriam: 9:30

Okay, okay, excellent. Yeah, I think a lot of people are having trouble. Well, the feedback that I get is a lot of people are having trouble young and older, or I should say school age and adult getting into a therapist. Number one and number two, getting and finding somebody that they like. And the most important thing is the therapeutic relationship, like feeling comfortable, feeling a sense of trust and confidence in that person so that you can find a secure attachment with them. And the modalities cognitive, behavioral, dialectical, behavioral, humanistic, acceptance and commitment therapy, like all of the different modalities, somatic therapy it's wonderful to have a therapist that has all of those in their toolbox. But even more important, I think, is that therapeutic relationship feeling like you're seen, you're heard and you can rely on this person and feel secure with them.

Zaira: 10:51

Yeah, absolutely. I've said it on my podcast too, where I've had friends of mine. We talked about finding a therapist. It can be pretty intimidating at first. We compare it to online dating, where you need to find a good fit, and at first I felt like I had to stick to my first therapist. But then, kind of thinking about it more, I'm like I'm allowed to quote, quote look around, see what's a good fit for me, because it is your mental health and if you're paying for it or you're investing your time into it, you wanna get the most help that you can get that works for you.

Zaira: 11:26

And so some of my friends that have started therapy some of the advice I've told them is just be patient. Like it might take a few therapists. Maybe you get on your first one and it works out great. But don't feel like a failure or don't put negative pressure on yourself if you don't get that right fit at the first try. Totally Just, it is pretty intimidating to kind of look online. Okay, whether it's through your insurance or through some type of service, we're okay, let me find the right fit, but it's so worth it once you get to that place. Yeah.

Miriam: 12:02

And for a long time I was against, like going out of network. You know, I would say, oh, if people came to me for references or ideas of recommendations, I should say I would say, well, look through your insurance first. And I still would say that because you don't wanna get to a point where you can't afford the ongoing therapy that you need to stay okay. But if there's somebody who comes up that meshes well with you, you can actually do a super bill, which I thought was gonna be a pain in the ass and it's not. I do this with my therapist. I get a bill at the end of the month, I submit it as a claim to Blue Cross and I get, you know, a check for, I think, 40% back or something like that.

Miriam: 12:49

So if your plan allows for out of network some kind of coverage, then that is an option.

Zaira: 12:58

Yeah, and then I think it's just more accessible too. Like I'm blinking on the name of the service right now, but I see ads on it all the time on social media. It's just like it's way more accessible online, which is really nice, Like better help.

Miriam: 13:13

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there are a few others, but yeah, yeah, that's wonderful that there are more options for you. Yes, but it is telehealth and you know everybody feels differently about that. But so now you're on like the positive psychology path. But you know, let's go back. How did you get into filmmaking?

Zaira: 13:40

Yeah, so I've always been a creative like if you can put numbers on me as someone else, because that's just not my strong suit. My brain does not function that way. I've always liked projects. Growing up, my dad would always take me to the movies, sometimes multiple times in the weekend, and from a young age I fell in love with storytelling and so my whole household and my family were definitely all storytellers. That's just how we are, and so as early of the age of nine, I knew I was going to go to film school. Like I knew that's what I was going to get my degree in, and so, just kind of you know, growing up you make your little videos posted on YouTube, and I had a lot of fun editing and all that. So I just knew I had a passion and enjoyment for it.

Zaira: 14:27

And comes to undergrad, going to college, I had a great experience. My emphasis was in directing and screenwriting for people curious, and so I, blessed enough, I did some really cool projects. Some of them went to film festivals and won some awards, which was really fun. But I definitely learned the importance of avoiding burnout through that, especially in like finding a space where you have things that you enjoy and not to make it work, because then it ends up ruining the fun and the experience for you and I definitely had did that with film because I put all my aches in one basket and then graduating 2020, where there's no jobs available, you end up feeling really stuck. So that leading up to it was really fun, like all the storytelling you know, writing, directing projects, like huge projects that take a year long, but getting to like the final end where I just be completely burnout. That's been one of the bigger life lessons I've learned.

Miriam: 15:31

And so how do you, or how? I know you're pivoting career-wise, but have you had success in finding a balance within filmmaking? I think?

Zaira: 15:47

now, instead of filmmaking, it looks more like the podcast part of it and the whole production side, and I think I've gotten now to a place where I'm learning a good balance for myself.

Zaira: 15:58

Incorporating different activities has been a huge thing, like exercising, I've realized that's been really crucial for my mental health and it's helping me feel not anxious, stressed or worked up for anything, and so just learning how to micromanage my time, you know, I think another big thing I've learned in life is you know it's okay to say no, so not having to commit to every invitation, every time I want to go out, friends want to come over.

Zaira: 16:27

Learning how to like put boundaries and say no, I need this time for me. Or needing to be okay with having downtime. And I think this might be like some anxiety tendencies I have, but I hate not doing anything, like not having plans or not having chores or things to do. I hate it because I feel guilty for resting, but I've had to learn how to accept you're allowed to rest, it's healthy. You know, if you're working now, you need a recovery day. If you're working projects, you need time to decompress. Like, if you're in school writing papers, doing assignments, it's okay to take a 20 minute break or 30 minute break decompress, come back refreshed and then start the process again.

Miriam: 17:12

Totally Wonderful. Yeah, that's such a huge lesson. It took me a long time to learn that. Like, taking a break is okay, you're going to be more productive if you come back.

Zaira: 17:26

Like if I'm looking at this paper and just staring at the screen, that's no more productive than me decompressing and then not being frustrated.

Miriam: 17:36

Yes, exactly, but you're right about the not having structured time. Not having every moment structured is sort of a characteristic of anxiety, because you're not able to sit still with yourself and or you may not be able to handle the way you feel when that happens, because there's probably racing thoughts and like a monkey mind coming up and all of those things. So how do you quiet your mind these days?

Zaira: 18:13

Oh man. So I'll be vulnerable because life is life. But just last week I got laid off because my company had budget cuts, so the next day I realized I don't have to go to work I have no congratulations.

Zaira: 18:31

But the whole thing of I have a lot of time to myself now, how can I not let the voices go crazy? And so this whole weekend has been a lot of reflecting on that of. Okay, I have a lot more free time on my hands, let me take advantage of this time. So what does that look like? Okay, I can be more intentional with the podcast. I can now be more intentional with going to the gym because those starting to build up you know I'm starting a class going back to school tomorrow. Yeah so statistics class not quite the program yet, but some like one last prerequisite class to do.

Zaira: 19:08

Okay but the school grain is starting tomorrow and so now I'm thinking, okay, what are hobbies instead of these projects? Like, what are some hobbies I can do? Okay, started reading, now doing reading. You know I love painting. I haven't done in a while, so let me tap back into that. Just be more present when I'm having dinner with my family, so just finding little ways to put it in, or even just sitting outside, just being outside getting fresh air, like, okay, let me like cleanse myself.

Miriam: 19:43

Wow, thank you for sharing. Yeah, congratulations on the newfound freedom. Thank you, we're going to figure it out.

Zaira: 19:52

I'm a bit stressed, but it's life.

Miriam: 19:55

The job market's pretty rough right now, so can I give a shout out to what you're looking for?

Zaira: 20:01

Yeah, in terms of like what jobs? Yeah, like what are you looking for?

Zaira: 20:07

so we can put it out there, thank you. Yeah, I something heading to the direction of, you know, behavioral health. So, whether it's like being the case management or starting to do some type of like coaching, something like that, I want to start pushing to that direction. So, you know, putting it out there, we'll see what happens. Excellent, that's wonderful, but I wanted to share, because I know a lot of people are struggling that right now, and just to say like you're not alone, because so many people are going through the same situation.

Miriam: 20:39

Yeah, I know people don't talk about it enough. You know, when they get laid off or fired or whatever, it's such like a hush hush. There's a lot of shame around it and it doesn't need to be.

Miriam: 20:53

You know, your job does not define who you are, or at least it shouldn't you know, I hate to put a should in there, but our identities are so much more than what we do between eight and five and the. You know. I was just talking to a friend about the differences between Europe and the US and how, in Europe, you know, you don't you talk about everything except for work. When you first meet somebody, you don't talk about work at all. And that's literally the first question people ask you here. That's so true, you know, yeah, and you say, I mean they. And a lot of times they'll say like I work as a blah, blah, blah, whatever. And in the US, you know, at least for me, I'm like I'm a school psychologist. Well, I'm not a school psychologist, I'm Miriam and I work as a school psychologist on Monday through Friday, between eight and five, 10 months a year.

Miriam: 21:59

You know, or like I support students. You know it's not and I'm a podcast. I work, I put out a podcast. I should say right, I think that the language that we use and how it becomes our identity, we need to be very careful about, about the words that we choose and that we tell ourselves, because it becomes, it does become your identity, you know.

Zaira: 22:28

I'm going to be more intentional about that, because I have definitely been telling myself like, oh, I'm a marketing specialist, I'm like I do marketing, you know? But it's been like identified to me, instead of being like, oh, I work for a company that happens to have the role where I do marketing, Like that's very, that's very true. Do you know why? In Europe, they they're more. They don't talk about jobs at all. Go first.

Miriam: 22:55

I think. Well, I'm just. I'm thinking more like I've been to Spain the last two summers and I was thinking about how they number one they don't live to work, they work to live, which is a huge paradigm shift for us. As you know Americans, here, you know, burnout is not a badge of honor. Here I mean there.

Zaira: 23:23

Yeah.

Miriam: 23:23

Yeah, yeah. And here it's just like oh, I'm so busy, oh I can't talk, I'm so busy, so busy, and that's like like a cool thing to be, so busy that you can't hang out with your friends or family.

Miriam: 23:36

There it's, like you know, they really take leisure, they hold it precious, or what's the word. They cherish the leisure time and they come together. They're very social and, I think more you know, more collectivistic, and so it's less about the achievement of the individual, like it is in the US, which is why we're hearing, why you know the way we have our lifestyle, why it sort of works, is because we have an individualistic society. But the parts that don't work are definitely very apparent, and in a lot of the collectivistic countries in Europe it's less about the individual, so they're not striving for this achievement all the time. It's more about togetherness, it's more about community, it's more about working together as a group and, as a result, they may not be as successful professionally, but they are and I can't speak for everybody, but but they are happier.

Miriam: 24:46

You know, subjective well-being is higher in collectivistic countries, so looking at the greater good instead of the achievement of the individual.

Zaira: 24:58

Right the times I've been in Europe or front family friends are European. They're just at a much slower pace. They're more present and, like you said, enjoy the leisure. And I think here we're just so go, go, go. Yes, that you're filled. You're made to feel guilty if you don't, which is where the you know the having a break or having time to rest. You can't fully enjoy that. And I think, at least from a younger perspective, where you know also dating around, where your job title holds a lot of value over who you are as a person, and I've noticed that through friends where you know their qualifications are the titles not who they are.

Miriam: 25:39

Yeah. Yeah, you're right, you judge. You judge people perspective dates, perspective partners by job titles here, and I'm sure there's some of that there, but it might be secondary or tertiary, it might not be number one, right? That's interesting, yeah. And do you find within the dating world, that that is true for women too? Like men seeking women, heterosexual men seeking women?

Zaira: 26:13

You know it's a really good question. I at least from my male friends or the men I have met, I haven't noticed that as much Like a big thing with. I just got laid off and the person that I had just gone on a date with today I had told him the day of I'm like hey, I'm being transparent, I just got laid off because budget cuts and I just put it out there like in case that's something that they hold as a category for their checklist. No hard feelings, I'm just putting it out there Like this is my situation now and so far from what I've noticed, that doesn't seem to be as much of a red flag as some women would say. I think, especially for women, we're wanting someone with stability and there's the typical gender roles that come into play. So I think that's where men might not look at that as like a priority list compared to women, at least from what I've noticed.

Miriam: 27:24

Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, there's a back when I was dating I got divorced in 2015, and I was dating a lot and I did a lot of research. Of course, I'm like such a nerd and I researched about dating and I came across this cultural anthropologist. Her name's Helen Fisher and what is her book I'll have to link it in the show notes but she talks about from her research that she found that women are looking for provision and protection, so providing service, providing means and then protection. And men at least sorry, I should put a disclaimer, it's a heterosexual in the heterosexual world women are looking for protection and provision.

Miriam: 28:25

Men are looking for youth and beauty as top priorities, and she found that, from a biological perspective and as much as that's like ooh, you know, like I don't like that it does make sense to why, why we act the way we do as heterosexual gender or roles, and so I think, for men especially, like the cultural programming is still coming along women don't have to work. You know, I know my generation, like not all the moms worked, my mom did, but it was more acceptable to stay at home, and even my generation there are a lot of stay at home moms amongst my children's friends and that would never be like a ding on the card but on it for a male absolutely.

Zaira: 29:43

Yeah, I noticed the dialogue with some of my female friends where, hey, certain criteria, like certain career choices, those are the only ones they're accepting. Yeah, and it's just interesting to kind of see like where our heads are at, like in the heterosexual dynamic, where the priorities list come in, yes, yes.

Miriam: 30:07

And I'm assuming that's for like long-term partnership, not just for casual dating or whatever. But yeah, that's interesting. I don't see that same weight placed on education or profession in Europe. It's a lot more like you just meet somebody in the street, you talk and you're you. You know If you're an upstanding person or a good storyteller, you have a good rapport with people. That's all that really matters and everything else is secondary and there's something to that. You know, I appreciate that.

Zaira: 30:53

It just feels more human, like you're actually seeing me for me, not what my degree is, what my paycheck looks like, you're actually looking at me for my qualities, yes, and I think, from again, like, from, like the experiences I've been noticing, and for my personal own, when you're just so caught up on you know, the titles or the looks, whatever it is you're missing a lot of depth and like the substance of it that you know whether it's the red flags or you know the incompatibility.

Zaira: 31:30

you're missing all of that and then I see a lot of people just being unhappy. Yeah.

Miriam: 31:36

Yeah, I think it's. So. I think the trouble is it's hard to quantify like honesty, integrity, like like the way you treat others, kindness, compassion, those are hard to quantify. But you can put like I'm an accountant or something you know, I'm a lawyer, doctor, whatever, and that's kind of what the dating profiles are like, R4. There is a split second, swipe left or right.

Zaira: 32:11

We go in the settings you will like do. What type of degree do they have? Yes, yeah, Like the high. Yeah, it's crazy.

Miriam: 32:19

And for I mean women are also very visual, but men are especially visual and you know, having good pictures and looking a certain way will make, will influence heterosexual men to swipe one way or another, you know.

Zaira: 32:40

So on that I actually tested it out.

Miriam: 32:43

When.

Zaira: 32:43

I first downloaded I had been trying hinge for people curious. You know I had really nice pretty pictures of me. You know my makeup and hair done, wineries dresses, and then within the past two weeks I was at a tough motor race for people listening. It was the obstacle course here in the mud. Not cute right? So I posted a picture of that and then video of me at the gym way less swipes on me, way less, which is hilarious, and I figured it would happen. But I tested it out just to see, yeah, and I thought it was so funny. But it just goes to the point, like visually, like you're just, you have less than a second to catch somebody's eye, boom, boom, boom. You just keeps going through that like almost like autopilot mode of just swiping, yeah.

Miriam: 33:29

It gets addictive. That swipe, yeah, it does. What. What do you think that's all about? Wouldn't guys want like somebody who can like hold their own outdoors?

Zaira: 33:42

I mean, I would think so, but I was also raised by a single dad, so what I picture would be typical, or let me let me replace it. I feel like I'm not the standard typical girl, that's the majority on these apps. Just because the activities I like, the way I think, the, just the way I present myself is not, quote unquote, typical or the majority usual, whatever you want to say. Tell me more about that.

Zaira: 34:11

I think this is a comment of gone a lot, whether it's from female friends or guy friends, that I can be intimidating, and I've never understood that, because I would say I'm a pretty nice person, you know like I think I'm approachable, but it's, I've been told, it's the way I carry myself because I am very independent and some men can't, can't handle that. I've been told that in my past relationships that I'm too independent or that I'm too masculine, like I'm too much of my masculine energy, hmm, and so I think some man, one or maybe not attracted to that, or there's just some type of well, I would I'm not going to try to guess, to know but there's just something that they don't like as much, you know. And so I think putting more like masculine activities on my page is going to attract less of the majority.

Miriam: 35:08

Interesting. Or maybe you're filtering out the assholes or you know the insecure guys.

Zaira: 35:16

I don't know, and that's what I was thinking Like. I know, you know there might be the insecurities there of they don't like someone that's independent, that can hold their own, because I know men really like the idea of wanting to be wanted, wanting to be needed, and so I've always been the point. Well, I've gotten to this point where if you're not adding to me but you're subtracting, then no, oh, good for you, bye, right, because I've and this has been like my intention with dating online of like, I can provide this stuff for myself. If the man can't do that, and more than, why am I entertaining less than what I would be able to give to myself? Ooh, thank you. That's been a big learning lesson from my last relationship to now dating. Say that again for me. So if I can provide X, y and Z for myself, why am I going to accept less than from a man? I'm only going to be accepting if he can provide equal to or more. Oh, beautiful, and the equal to is the bare minimum I love that?

Miriam: 36:22

Yeah, I think. From what I've seen in my experience, it seems as though there's a lot of codependency out there and people. What I mean by that is people wanting to be wanting or just being responsible, whether they want to or not, for the actions, feelings, experiences of other people. So, for instance, having a partner and then feeling responsible for their feelings, and then, vice versa, the partner being responsible for how you feel. And what I notice actually works is when two people and actually I had a therapist say this to me, I think, during my divorce is that when two people are like two independent trees, rooted and strong and standing on their own, branching out, and then they can come together, that's when it's most successful as a relationship. But when you're intertwined, then it doesn't work well, because if one person's down, then the other one is also down and you end up dragging somebody. Yeah, it's just interesting the way relationships work.

Zaira: 38:08

I definitely learned that in my last one, where, towards the end, I realized this has gotten very codependent. I think a big thing also learned too through therapy and just experiences maintaining your own identity. You're combining lives. It's not just one thing, you need to still have your own. I really love the analogy with the trees and the roots it's two separate trees, but they're joining deep down and building the foundation instead of intertwining and now there's just too much going on. Yeah.

Miriam: 38:45

And you lose yourself. You lose yourself in the other person and their experience and as much as Hollywood would like to. Sorry filmmaker.

Zaira: 38:58

Oh, no, no, I agree with that.

Miriam: 39:02

As much as Hollywood would like us to think that we should just be so entrenched in the other person and responsible for them and their well-being, we really are not. We are responsible for our own happiness, no one can hurt you without your permission, and you are responsible for being kind and compassionate and supportive, but you are not responsible for their experience.

Zaira: 39:30

Oh, absolutely. You need to get to a place first where you're happy with yourself and that you love yourself, before you can even begin to attempt to take care of somebody else or for them to even try to take care of you.

Miriam: 39:44

Yes, yes, one of the books that I had read during my uncoupling was it's called a breakup because it's broken and it's by the what is his name? It's the guy who wrote. It's him and the woman who wrote. He's just not at that into you, that same author. And I read it probably 20 times during that period because it was just like, oh yeah, okay, that resonates with me and like, oh, I got to remind myself. But one of the things that he talked about was that you have to shine. Like the way you find a partner is you go out, you do what interests you, you go out, you find your passions and when you do that, when you're making yourself happy, you shine and somebody's gonna see you and fall in love with that. So, and then when you're in a relationship, if you start to dull that part, or like compromise those parts of you, then you're gonna appear less attractive. It's not gonna work.

Zaira: 40:55

That is so true. Like with my last relationship, I really didn't notice until the end, the tail end where I had completely lost myself. For and this is a problem I realized through therapy that I need to be working better on with boundaries is I can get myself intertwined in the other person and just kind of be kind of wrapped up on them, and where I put myself completely last, where I just lose my identity and kind of going that into now dating we're, you know, posting the Tough Mudder picture, posting me squatting at the gym or like I'm being authentically myself, because these are the things I love to do and this is what makes me happy and it filters out people that are on that same wavelength or those just the same mindset as you.

Miriam: 41:42

Yeah, yeah, I would imagine that guys who are not very active are gonna be intimidated by Tough Mudder pictures you know sedentary or you know haven't been in the gym in a long time, or something like that, and that's probably not really what you want anyway. So that does filter out. It does, yeah, some folks, yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's just interesting. And now you're in LA, right?

Zaira: 42:11

Well, I live in the IE, so about an hour east of LA. What does that mean? Inland Empire, inland Empire, okay.

Miriam: 42:18

Okay so, but there's a big, I mean population around you for like dating and all of that. Have you always been there?

Zaira: 42:28

So I actually grew up by LA, you know, if people are familiar, like Pasadena, that's where I grew up and so I've been out here now for the past 10 years and so, like, some of the biggest differences I learned was just, you know, the demographic is much more diverse down here. You know, growing up I was basically one of the few brown girls at my schools and so it just like growing up a little bit different and then now coming out here where it was like oh, there's people that look like me and like now the demographic, also the dating, is just very different, which is crazy because it's only maybe like a 50 mile difference.

Miriam: 43:05

But yeah, it could be just a neighborhood like what you know, one mile difference, and it can be a big difference.

Zaira: 43:12

Yeah, that's true.

Miriam: 43:13

Tell me a little bit about that, about growing up and being feeling like a minority.

Zaira: 43:19

Yeah, so I it's kind of crazy. My preschool, kindergarten, I kid you guys, not, I was literally the only non Asian at the school. So I remember in kindergarten having to learn Mandarin. I don't know anything now, but like learning how to do it because that's just the demographic at the word. The town was for my school and when one of the one year, like, we had a Chinese New Year performance and I, conveniently, was the only one that had to wear a mask, so that was like the first experience with racism, which is kind of crazy, and so you know, at the costume.

Miriam: 44:05

like your, your costume was the only one that had a mask. Yeah, Wow.

Zaira: 44:10

Yeah, interesting, and that was like one of the moms at the school had was coordinating the play and I, conveniently, was the only one with a mask. So that was my first experience with that. And then, you know, going into elementary school I used to be severely bullied, you know, because I a little darker, I'm hairier, you know, I'm Mexican, you know it. Just body types different. I'm not tall and thin like. I'm shorter, a little thicker.

Zaira: 44:38

So just getting bullied that way, you know, demographic wise, you know, growing up we didn't have the money to a four shopping, a Hollister or that type of stuff. So, appearance wise, my clothes, you know, would get made fun of that as well. And then that carried on into high school to where literally boys in class next to me like pulling on my arm hair and telling me to wax and my mustache, and so that was really hard, you know. And then girls telling me that, oh, you need to pluck your eyebrows because they're too thick. And, you know, growing up, a single dad, no one's here to teach me this stuff. So that learning curve was so interesting. So to move out to in an empire where I'm not the minority anymore, it was my brain had a wrap around that.

Miriam: 45:31

Was it comforting? Yeah.

Zaira: 45:36

I would say comforting it was, I don't know. I guess I didn't think too much about it. It was just more of a like, you know, like an observation of like oh, cool, okay, and I'm not the only Hispanic, there's other Hispanics who, like more people, speak Spanish actually at their homes, or, you know, social, economically, I feel like I'm a little bit more up to place with my peers here compared to you know, my first high school was a bit more like posh, and so there was also that difference of like I don't fit in with these kids because they're talking about all these different things, they have access to different stuff and I don't. So that I think that kind of carried into not that I was as part of the reason with therapy, but that definitely played a role of. You know, I was dealing a lot of pretty toxic stuff at home and then having to face that also at school, where I ended up really isolating myself and so just learning how to be a person, so just learning how to bottle things up.

Miriam: 46:42

I'm so sorry. It's okay. How do you think those experiences have served you or will serve you?

Zaira: 46:57

I think I've always been really intentional, since a young age, to never make somebody feel the way people have made me felt. So if there was a new kid at school or at work, I've always tried my best to be one of the first people to come up to them and talk and, you know, be a resource, whether they wanted to be my friend or not, up to them. And I've actually had some people think they tell me now like we've been friends where they thought I was. They were a little standoffish with me because they think I'm being fake, because I'm being too nice and so it's funny now. But that's just.

Zaira: 47:33

I've always tried my best Like I don't want people to feel the way that I have felt, because it sucks, like it's not fun, and so again I don't view my like the bullying I had experience or any of that, like I don't view it as I don't think of it negatively anymore. I'm not bitter, I'm not upset at all. It's again allowed me room for empathy, to be understanding and to speak up for people that are going through that. And even now as an adult, where, if I'm noticing that in the workplace or with even within my friends, just having a little, whether it's more patience or just more understanding to. You know, either give people grace or to just be a resource for them.

Miriam: 48:18

Nice, nice, and then you're gonna, you're pivoting towards this positive psychology, behavioral health trajectory. Tell me a little bit about what are your possible paths or what are you thinking.

Zaira: 48:38

So end goal is to open up a winery slash wellness retreat Awesome. So that is the end goal. I used to work at a winery, so I just love the wine industry. My podcast is called complex, like wine. So, like, I love wine.

Zaira: 48:52

Yes, but I want to create a venue or a space where people can get resources and you know, whether it's for organizations like a work retreat, or even people locally or groups like women making waves, where, whether it's like yoga, sound bats, you know, like equestrian therapy, like coaching, team building, you know self development exercises I just really love the concept of community and I just really want to build that in some type of platform. And so, from now to there, I'm not exactly sure how that look like, but I just. The reason why I've been kind of keep getting drawn to positive psychology is I really love the preventative aspect of it. You know, instead of like, let's pick up the pieces, it's more like okay, let's really hone into your strengths and really, yeah, harness into that, like, let's harness into it. And you know the resiliency aspect of it, like how can we move and push this forward? So I'm not sure where they'll head, what's going to go, but that's amazing, that's great.

Miriam: 50:02

No, you don't need to know. You don't need to know. You can just, you know, send it out into the universe and see what manifesting.

Zaira: 50:09

Yes, yeah.

Miriam: 50:11

Great, what did I just sorry? Yeah, I think that proactive mental health, mental wellness, is a shift that really needs to happen. We're so. The medical model is so based on pathology and for all of all kinds of health physical, mental, overall health and we're constantly trying to fix what's broken and trying to address symptoms, but not the root cause and I know that there's. You know we have. We have all these. We only have so many resources, so we have to put out the fires that we have to put out. But at the same time, it's like why aren't we investing in the prevention and really doing it in a systematic way to support people, so that we don't have to get to the point where they're having suicidal ideation and and seeking out help? At that stage maybe we could get. We could intervene earlier and support them better.

Miriam: 51:26

That's huge. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Zaira: 51:28

Yeah, I think just acknowledging what the root causes is super important and, again, like you said, I feel there's not enough focus on that. Like so much can be prevented if we actually acknowledge what the root causes instead of, you know, just hitting the surface levels of whatever it may be.

Miriam: 51:46

Yes. One thing I want to respectfully bring up no, please is you know there is, there is some science behind alcohol and depression and the. I mean it is a depressant. It turns into a stimulant after a few or, I'm sorry, doesn't turn it. There's a byproduct that is a stimulant. But recently there have been some podcasts that really have condemned alcohol as an anxiety perpetrate. I don't know influencer.

Miriam: 52:37

I guess, and also depression, you know. So how could we reconcile that? Like as much as we love wine, but I mean, I stopped drinking recently because of my mental health and it has been huge for me and it doesn't work for everybody. I'm not proposing that as a blanket statement for everybody but it does. It can make a difference and I encourage people to try it out. Yeah, how do you? What do you think about that?

Zaira: 53:19

Oh, yeah yeah, that's a great question. So this from my podcast and doing season two and a lot of my episodes this season there's been no wine involved at all, because typically how I've had the episodes set up is you have a glass of wine and I just kind of had it in that format because you want.

Zaira: 53:37

I wanted to feel like, oh, you're having a glass with a friend, so it's more familiar right, yes, but a lot of my episodes now have been with no drinking, because, whether the guest is dealing with like alcoholism or they decided to stop drinking, and so I'm bringing that more upfront to the episodes, like you don't need to have a glass of wine to just whether be involved with my platform or with mental health, and so that has been something I've definitely been thinking a lot about. And so, in terms like the long term goal, I picture it because where I'd love to eventually have this dream is in slow, like San Luis Obispo, because I just really love, I love that county. The people there are amazing. I just the entrepreneurial spirit in there, I love it. So how I, at least in that terms, I've had been really like brainstorming, as you know, like having separate wings or two different locations where here's the work retreat, but then if you partake and you're here for wine country, you can still enjoy this winery where it's, you know, a more holistic environment, you know. So that's kind of the approach with that.

Zaira: 54:43

And then, from my own experience, I definitely, you know, during the pandemic I was drinking a lot too much, we'll be honest. You know we get the box wine with friend and you know, just drink, drink, drink every day, because what else are you going to do? And now I've definitely cut it back to maybe a glass or two during the week, like a glass of my dad or dinner, or maybe even going out with a friend. You know, do a glass and limit it. But even there I've noticed I feel a lot better and just even just like physically, like minus the mental health, or I just feel way better if I'm not drinking all the time.

Zaira: 55:18

Where I come, more specifically with red wine, you know there's studies on that end, where red wine, you know, in moderation of course, you know, produce antioxidants and so there's been studies on that of like how in moderation it can help a little bit with, you know, your body and just your gut and everything and how the guts connected to your mental health and all that. So that's where you know obviously something needs to be more researched. But again, no, there's no set thing for anybody. It really depends, like, if drinking makes you anxious or depressed, don't, maybe don't do it. But if it doesn't bother you, then you know, obviously moderation, take care of your body. But I don't know, I think that's a thing where it's going to be like a journey to figure out, and then it's a case by case, person type of situation.

Miriam: 56:08

Yeah, that seems reasonable, like just providing options in your wellness centers and that kind of thing.

Zaira: 56:15

I know you know non-alcoholic wine is becoming more popular too. Yes, that's something I would definitely want to incorporate, where you know, having trying to find a way where you can provide options of people to have a healthy relationship with alcohol, or even just having a space where they don't feel they're going to, it's going to impact them directly. So I think the big thing is just providing options.

Miriam: 56:38

Wonderful, ok. Last question for you. If you were to go back and give some words of encouragement or advice to your younger self, what would you say?

Zaira: 56:53

I would just tell my younger self like give yourself some compassion. It's OK not to have everything figured out, especially with how I grew up, where I felt love was conditional and I put boundaries to the side because I felt like I had to put myself at the mercy of somebody else to get affection or validation and some type of way. I would just tell my younger self like no, you're more than enough, you're loved. If someone can't recognize that, that's on them and you know just to be firm with your boundaries and also the power of no. The power of no is a huge one for me. Or you're allowed to say no and you don't have to feel bad. Yeah, that's what I would tell my younger self. Beautiful.

Miriam: 57:41

OK, well, zyda, thank you so much for your time. Your podcast is complex like wine. Where is it available?

Zaira: 57:50

All platforms, so Spotify, apple, google, youtube. I have the website wwwcomplexlikewinecom, and so you can find all the resources there as well, and it has its own Instagram page just complex like wine, so people can find me there if they wanted to follow. And so today, same on Tech Talk Excellent.

Miriam: 58:13

I'll have all those links in the show notes and you're just a little blurb about you, and I wish you so much luck in finding something that pays the bills and serves your soul. Thank you.

Zaira: 58:32

Thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you for having me on, absolutely.

Miriam: 58:36

And if you're looking for a coach, if you're looking for a mental health supporter, please give Zyda a buzz, because she's looking for a way to an avenue to support people's mental health. It's wonderful. Thank you, guys.